there is no god

[terra]

[Warrigal]

My thinking:
TO EACH HIS OWN!
People find comfort in their own beliefs>> Don't Knock them.

A question I've asked before: Cain went to the land of NOD & came back with a wife? Who was her father, if there were only ADAM & EVE & CAIN, when CAIN was sent to NOD?

You make the same mistake as all the other Biblical fundamentalists.
You are not reading history - it is a mythical account of the origins of the Jewish tribes.

Warri: The mistake I made was listening to the DE LA SALLE BROTHERS, @ Oakhill college for five years!

You left school a very long time ago. Time to think and explore ideas for yourself. A fixed mind is a closed mind and closed minds do not grow.
My mum got stuck on the story of Jonah and the whale and never looked more deeply into anything written in the scriptures. She wasn't too receptive to Shakespeare either, a pity since both are examples of some really great literature and philosophy.

[Teddy]

My thinking:
TO EACH HIS OWN!
People find comfort in their own beliefs>> Don't Knock them.

A question I've asked before: Cain went to the land of NOD & came back with a wife? Who was her father, if there were only ADAM & EVE & CAIN, when CAIN was sent to NOD?

Biggdad,I hope this may be helpful.
The first thing to note there is no time frame for the events in Genesis 4-5.We have no idea how old they were when Cain killed Abel
What we do know is Adam & Eve had other sons & daughters not named. Adam & Eve were commanded to populate the earth(Gen5:3-40 Adam lived for more than 900 years
We can assume that Caine's wife was one of these daughters & he could have been married to her when he was sent to the land of NOD. There is nothing to indicate either way
This is not strange because Sarah was Abraham's half sister. Rebekah was a close relative of Isaac & Jacob's wives were close relatives. Some of David's sons married their half sisters.
The laws against incest were not introduced until after the people of Israel came out of Egypt(Leviticus18)

[Warrigal]

With due respect Teddy, I don't think that is helpful. In the 21st century it is untenable to regard these Genesis stories as historic. They are myths, just as the Aboriginal Dreamtime stories are myths, but within the stories are important lessons that were handed down the generations through the telling and retelling of the stories. The lessons are about relationships; relationships between family, within tribe, with the natural world (Creation in the case of the Jews) and with the Creator (Dreamtime beings in the case of Aborigines).

When we were in Sunday school we learned these stories as factual. As adults we bring more knowledge and experience of the world to the stories and can appreciate the stories with greater maturity.

As Paul wrote to the Church in Corinth "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Even so, our understanding is never complete, even after a lifetime of reflection "For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face."

It is important to remember that in Paul's time mirrors were simply polished metal that provided rather distorted reflections of the real thing. The only other mirrors would have been the water surface at the bottom of wells.

It is a difficult thing to do - wanting to have certainty of knowledge, yet never quite grasping it. For some it is too frustrating to bother.

[Warrigal]

With due respect Teddy, I don't think that is helpful. In the 21st century it is untenable to regard these Genesis stories as historic. They are myths, just as the Aboriginal Dreamtime stories are myths, but within the stories are important lessons that were handed down the generations through the telling and retelling of the stories. The lessons are about relationships; relationships between family, within tribe, with the natural world (Creation in the case of the Jews) and with the Creator (Dreamtime beings in the case of Aborigines).

When we were in Sunday school we learned these stories as factual. As adults we bring more knowledge and experience of the world to the stories and can appreciate the stories with greater maturity.

As Paul wrote to the Church in Corinth "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Even so, our understanding is never complete, even after a lifetime of reflection "For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face."

It is important to remember that in Paul's time mirrors were simply polished metal that provided rather distorted reflections of the real thing. The only other mirrors would have been the water surface at the bottom of wells. The knowledge that we think we have is similarly a distorted reflection of reality, whether we are thinking of scientific knowledge or theology.

It is a difficult thing to do - wanting to have certainty of knowledge, yet never quite grasping it. For some it is too frustrating to bother.

[Biggdad]

WARRI, TEDDY: Here is a book you both may enjoy.

https://www.bookdepository.com/Seven-Da ... 0552152181

[Perrorist]

That's a fanciful take on genetics, BD. Yes, we do share common DNA with other races, as we do with non-humans, but there's nothing remarkable about it. I'd be more concerned if we appeared to have no common ancestry.

[Teddy]

With due respect Teddy, I don't think that is helpful. In the 21st century it is untenable to regard these Genesis stories as historic. They are myths, just as the Aboriginal Dreamtime stories are myths, but within the stories are important lessons that were handed down the generations through the telling and retelling of the stories. The lessons are about relationships; relationships between family, within tribe, with the natural world (Creation in the case of the Jews) and with the Creator (Dreamtime beings in the case of Aborigines).

When we were in Sunday school we learned these stories as factual. As adults we bring more knowledge and experience of the world to the stories and can appreciate the stories with greater maturity.

As Paul wrote to the Church in Corinth "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Even so, our understanding is never complete, even after a lifetime of reflection "For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face."

It is important to remember that in Paul's time mirrors were simply polished metal that provided rather distorted reflections of the real thing. The only other mirrors would have been the water surface at the bottom of wells. The knowledge that we think we have is similarly a distorted reflection of reality, whether we are thinking of scientific knowledge or theology.

It is a difficult thing to do - wanting to have certainty of knowledge, yet never quite grasping it. For some it is too frustrating to bother.

Jesus spoke with authority. He referred to the creation story as fact,Matt19:4-6
He referred to the Noah story as fact Matt24.37 & many other instances
It makes one wonder if the person has any foundation for faith and assurance
It appears we may choose what we accept to suit our own ideas and convenience. The apostle Peter has warned against this.2nd Peter ch1:19-2:3 also in chapter3

[Warrigal]

Teddy, I appreciate where you are coming from but I still say it doesn't help to be arguing about where Cain found a wife or whether people in OT times lived for hundreds of years. These arguments can become stumbling blocks in the path to faith, something else that Jesus warned against. I choose to focus my reflections on the teachings of Jesus, especially the parables that can be read many times and each time find something not considered before, such is their depth..

There is a hymn that I always enjoy that was written in the first part of the 19th century
The first verse and chorus are as follows

We limit not the truth of God
To our poor reach of mind,
By notions of our day and sect,
Crude, partial and confined.
Now let a new and better hope
Within our hearts be stirred:

The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.

To me this speaks of our struggle to understand the scriptures and reconcile them with our modern understanding of the world. It is an ongoing struggle that is never perfectly resolved in this place. To question and think is not antithetical to faith. When we are ready we stumble on light and truth and grow in knowledge and understanding.

[mavisbramston]

Why do we have to respect people who are quite simply stupid. They actually believe in sky fairies and invisible friends Its not only stupid its a bastard religion full of hate. Condems gays, women and other minorities. If you dont believe you will be punished. How arrogant. It condones oppression and slavery.
Respect them ...no bloody way. Frankly what a pity they were not finished off in the arena.

Hmmn... The epiphany you had during/after the same sex marriage survey doesn't seem to have lasted very long.
You are back to a blanket derision for all people of faith.
And you make sweeping assumptions about their beliefs and actions.
Your position is unreasonable, as in formed without due reasoning.

Quite simply not so.
Firstly I was impressed with many Christains during the same sex marriage debate. I. was very impressed. I am impressed with you Warrigal.
My attack is not on you just the idea of people actually believing in sky fairies. Come on accept it...its simply childish.
THERE ARE NO SKY FAIRIES
I used to believe in it too. I am now god free!
May I say that it is indeed a bit rich that christains are getting incredibly precious about criticism. The comments I make about christains is nothing compared to the cruel ugly stuff gay people and their families were subjected to. When handing out brochures my wife and I were verbally abused, threatened and spat at. Give me a break!
We had to suck it up and it hurt.
Just the same. The mainstream made their hate very clear the church wasted no time inflicting their hate on many young gay people.
My blanket derision is because of their track record.
It is absurd to have this rule that we must all refrain from attacking religion. The church is not above democracy. ONCE churches etc start paying taxes and keep out of politics I might respect them a bit more.
For now they are fair game.

[Dreamweaver]

Mavis, you have to speak from your experience, where you stand.
I would not argue with that, we all stand n different places, have different genes, different backgrounds and environmental influences.
It's ridiculous to think we could all have the same view.

The main thing, I think, is that each of us can recognise this, and not expect anyone else to see things as we see them.

Warri, I love these words

We limit not the truth of God
To our poor reach of mind,
By notions of our day and sect,
Crude, partial and confined.
Now let a new and better hope
Within our hearts be stirred:

The Lord hath yet more light and truth
To break forth from His Word.

which I'm not familiar with, and will now go and search for a tune!

[mavisbramston]

Out of respect for warrigal and the site I might step out of this discussion. I admit I get very emotional. Because of things I have experienced from the church I am full of rage and anger.
Thanks however for letting me have my say.

[Warrigal]

No need to withdraw on my account. I don't take posts personally.
You should not take mine that way either, even if they appear to be targeted at you.
They are not - I am simply responding to a post that I disagree with.

[Perrorist]

Respectful discussion is expected and practised in Silver Peers. Thanks to everyone for focusing on the subject matter rather than attacking each other (which seems to be the norm elsewhere).

[mavisbramston]

I certainly respect Warrigal. No the withdrawal was due to me as I worry about getting impulsive. At least on silver I can editt any regretable comments but impulse ,although human ,often makes an applogy too late.
I am delighted however that you folk dont see religion as a no go area.
In USA the separation of church and state is under very very serious threat. It may well happen here when these religious freedom bills come in.
I believe it is NOT about freedom of religion but freedom FROM. religion.