The Crimean crisis.

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grandduke
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The Crimean crisis.

Post by grandduke » 10 Mar 2015, 09:55

Russian aggression or Nato expansionism.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_117915.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis

Russia has always had its black sea fleet in Crimea and considered the area as Russian.

On March 17, the Crimean parliament declared independence from Ukraine and asked to join the Russian Federation.[172] President Putin claimed Crimea as a part of Russia on moral and material grounds, citing the principle of self determination and Crimea's strategic importance for Russia.
So Putin got his way after all.
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
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Buck_naked
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Buck_naked » 10 Mar 2015, 11:02

duck and cover, the nukes are coming.
start digging, dig deep. see you in 50 years like Brendan Fraser, 'Blast from the Past'.. :lol: :lol:

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godfather
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by godfather » 10 Mar 2015, 20:22

You can't please everybody all the time but you can please some people some of the time!
The Crimean peninsula has seen many conflicts and owners but I always understood that Russia was its first owner.
Please tell me that is true. Tx....

:lol: :lol: :lol:
The devil whispered, “You cannot withstand the storm“ and I replied: “I am the storm!”.....Unknown.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Dreamweaver » 10 Mar 2015, 22:01

I think Greeks, Goths, Huns, Romans, Byzantium, Mongols, and Turks all claimed it from time to time, until somewhere around 1500 Russia started fighting with Turkey over it and continued until -
1768-1774 – Russian-Turkish war, which resulted in the Crimean Khanate proclaimed independent of Turkey, Kerch became a Russian city.

1783 – Crimea was absorbed by Russia and recognized the rights of the Russian nobility for all the noble families of the Khanate. Russia built the cities of Sevastopol as the center of the Russian Black Sea Fleet and Simferopol (1784) as the center of the Tauride province.

1787 – Journey to the Crimea Russian Empress Catherine II and Emperor Joseph of Austria-Hungary I – the most expensive tour of all time.

1787-1791. – Second Russian-Turkish War. Turkey recognized the annexation of Crimea by Russia.
Then
1991 – “Coup” in Moscow and arrest of President Gorvachev. The Soviet Union collapsed and Crimea became an autonomous republic within independent Ukraine.

Gradual return of the deported Tartar population to Crimea with the support of Turkey starts fears of a second revival of the Ottoman Empire.

2014 – The Ukrainian government of Viktor Yanukovich fell under a population revolt in Kiev. The Parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and for its annexation to the Russian Federation.
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godfather
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by godfather » 11 Mar 2015, 21:42

Thanks DW, I had some idea that Russia was claiming the Crimea as their own, and as far as I have heard the main language is Russian anyway!

:twocents-mytwocents:
The devil whispered, “You cannot withstand the storm“ and I replied: “I am the storm!”.....Unknown.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Dreamweaver » 12 Mar 2015, 09:06

Seems you were spot on, GF!
:cool:
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grandduke
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by grandduke » 12 Mar 2015, 12:28

Are you aware that Nikita Khrushchev spent much of his time
before and during Stalins time in the Ukraine and Kiev.
some history.
Large portion of Ukraine's current territory formed part of the medieval state of Kievan Rus'. After the breakup of Kievan Rus', instigated by the Mongol invasion, the country was divided for several centuries between the kingdom of Poland, the grand duchy of Lithuania, and the Ottoman Empire, and by the 18th century it had been largely integrated into the Russian Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Briefly independent following the 1917 revolution, Ukraine became one of the original constituent republics (and the third largest) of the USSR. In 1991, on the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Ukraine became an independent republic.
Now we know why Putin is invading that country.
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
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godfather
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by godfather » 12 Mar 2015, 21:38

There is oil in them there pipelines crossing the Crimean!

Oil, not Weapons of Mass Destruction!

:character-oldtimer: :character-oldtimer: :character-oldtimer:
The devil whispered, “You cannot withstand the storm“ and I replied: “I am the storm!”.....Unknown.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Dreamweaver » 01 Dec 2017, 18:29

I was looking for rights and wrongs here, and still no clearer. The Crimea was Russian at the time of the Soviet collapse, 1991. Then it became autonomous, but within Ukraine, which was also independent.

Only 13 years later, 2014 – the Ukrainian government of Viktor Yanukovich fell under a population revolt in Kiev. The Parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and for its annexation to the Russian Federation, which seems a reasonable and legitimate thing to do. But I can find only passionate and biased information from both sides, those who claim international observers okayed it all, those who claim rigging. etc.

It does seem now that many who voted to return to Russia have been disappointed in the resulting treatment under Russia, but would they find themselves better off returning to Ukraine?

I guess we'll never know.
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Dreamweaver
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Dreamweaver » 01 Dec 2017, 19:42

Ah, but I didn't see this!
https://www.vox.com/cards/ukraine-every ... ou-explain
Some Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the country's east and south, particularly in Crimea, have not quite reconciled themselves to being citizens of Ukraine over Russia. Ideas that their region should be absorbed into Russia are very much alive.

Even though Yanukovych was removed from power by protesters, mostly in the west, this has not resolved the nation's deeper identity crisis. All it did was shift power from a pro-Russian, eastern-based political party to a pro-European, western-based political party. That's upset pro-Russian Ukrainians in the country's east and south, including in Crimea, where pro-Russian demonstrators marched against the new government. The Kremlin quietly backed those protests, including by sending in unmarked Russian troops, which took over government buildings in Crimea and in eastern Ukraine. In Crimea, that ended with a Russian military occupation and annexation. In eastern Ukraine, it's led to ongoing fighting between pro-Russian separatists and Ukrainian security forces, and in August with the Russian military overtly invading.
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Perrorist
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Perrorist » 02 Dec 2017, 06:12

Russia "donated" Crimea to Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR on the understanding that it had free access to the ports there. NATO then tried to recruit the Ukraine, in defiance of Russia's promise to annex Crimea and East Ukraine if that went ahead, then took preemptive action over Crimea (it needs those ports). Once again, NATO (for all practical purposes, the US) is provoking Russia with its aggressive advance across Eastern Europe.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? The US wouldn't allow Russia to base its missiles so close to the US and for a while there we thought a nuclear conflict was all but inevitable. The US always adopts a different standard for itself...because it can.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Dreamweaver » 02 Dec 2017, 10:51

The idea I think is to keep your peopled united beneath you by creating a common enemy. Why this has to be another nation and involve military threat I suppose has valid reasons, but I would have thought environmental issues, climate change, population explosion, and such things, offered other alternatives than 'reds under the beds' did.
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Perrorist
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Re: The Crimean crisis.

Post by Perrorist » 02 Dec 2017, 14:28

It's easier to provoke fear of an identifiable object than something nebulous like ocean acidification, for example. It's also easier in other ways. Tackling climate change is difficult and expensive; identifying scapegoats by the colour of their skins costs nothing for the fear-mongers.

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