Atheist, or agnostic?

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Dreamweaver
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Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 09 Apr 2017, 10:55

People need focus. There’s a reason why the American mythologist Joseph Campbell chose the hero’s journey as his fundamental myth: we don’t give out faith and loyalty to an idea nearly as readily as we give it to a hero, a person. And so a God whom we understand not as a vague notion or spirit, but as a living presence, with voice and face and will and command — this is what I think most people want in a visceral way. In some ways, it’s what we need.

And I do not believe such a God exists in our universe.
Maybe I — we — need to start small, rebuilding gods that we talk to, and who talk back. Or just one whom we can plausibly imagine, our invisible friend. Maybe part of our problem is that we don’t actually want to talk to the voice of Everything, because Everything has gotten so unfathomably huge. George Fox, the founder of Quakerism, didn’t have to think about light years, let alone billions of light years. The stars now are too far away to be our friends or speak to us in our need. Maybe we could talk to a god whom we imagined in our house. Maybe we could ask what is wanted, and hear what is needed. Maybe that god would tell us not to tramp over the earth in armies, pretending we are bigger than we are, and that dying is OK, because it’s just something that happens when your life is over. Maybe we would ask for help and comfort from unexpected places, and often enough receive it and be thankful for it.

Maybe we need to name that little god something other than God, because maybe our God has a boss who has a boss whose boss runs the universe. Maybe we name this god Ethel, or Larry, or Murgatroyd. Maybe there is no god but God… or maybe there just is no God. And maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe we just tell stories that ring true to us and say up-front that we know they are fiction. We can let people love these stories or hate them. Maybe imagining impossible things — such as flying, the land where sagas come from, God — is what is needed. Maybe we don’t need the gods to be real. Maybe all we need is to trust more leaps of the imagination.
https://aeon.co/essays/

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Trishia
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Trishia » 10 Apr 2017, 10:41

Thank you for that post DW. I have long ago come to the conclusion that, we DON'T really know whether there is a God as such, or whether it is a figment of imagination by religious zealots.
There have been so many lies told about it, and very little proof of anything.
So, I prefer to wait and see! At my age I will not have long to wait.
If there is something , an afterlife etc., then that will be a bonus. If there is NOTHING, then I will never know, and so it won't matter. I am an AGNOSTIC!
I will just try to get the most out of the few years I have left, and try to lead as hassle free life as I can, without doing harm to others.
:happy-sunshine:

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by mavisbramston » 11 Apr 2017, 10:54

Great post Tricia. Great topic Dream.
I am disappointed with atheists and I am one. When it comes to religion atheists have become too cautious. Treading softly softly. Too worried they might upset the sensitivities of religious people. Look. Religions get a pretty fair go. Tax breaks, for long they escaped prosecution over numerous crimes they bring their religion into parliament even schools. Stop letting them off so lightly.
Religion and I mean all religions have a very simple agenda. Nothing much more. Religions function is to give people permission to express their predjudices and their hate. Its ok to hate women, blacks, condone slavery, kill gays hate people following no religion or other religions because the Bible and the Quorun says its ok.
Last edited by mavisbramston on 11 Apr 2017, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Buck_naked
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Buck_naked » 11 Apr 2017, 11:03

religion is about control.
Controlling gullible moronic fools who believe this rubbish.

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Perrorist » 11 Apr 2017, 12:33

I'm neither agnostic nor atheist, as both terms assume a deity. I'm simply irreligious.

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Slapsy » 11 Apr 2017, 13:03

I am not religous,my wife is. We have an arrangement that has worked for years. She doesn't insist on me going to church with her,and I don't insist on her going to the bowling club with me. :lol: :lol:
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by mavisbramston » 12 Apr 2017, 20:34

Theres really not much difference. An atheist does not believe because there is no evidence. I would believe if I was given solid evidence. I would be asking a few questions though.

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 12 Apr 2017, 21:41

What if...
extraterrestrials, intelligent but not divine, experimented here and we are the result? What if distorted stories have come down to us? What if the head of the project came to be seen as a god?
Book of Enoch
In the Book of Enoch, the Watchers (Aramaic עִירִין, iyrin) are angels dispatched to Earth to watch over the humans. They soon begin to lust for human women and, at the prodding of their leader Samyaza, defect en masse to illicitly instruct humanity and procreate among them. The offspring of these unions are the Nephilim, savage giants who pillage the earth and endanger humanity. Samyaza and his associates further taught their human charges arts and technologies such as weaponry, cosmetics, mirrors, sorcery, and other techniques that would otherwise be discovered gradually over time by humans, not foisted upon them all at once. Eventually God allows a Great Flood to rid the earth of the Nephilim, but first sends Uriel to warn Noah so as not to eradicate the human race. The Watchers are bound "in the valleys of the Earth" until Judgment Day. (Jude verse 6 says that these fallen angels are kept "in everlasting chains under darkness" until Judgement Day.)

The chiefs of tens, listed in the Book of Enoch, are as follows:

7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.

— R. H. Charles translation, The Book of the Watchers, Chapter VI.
The book of Enoch also lists leaders of the 200 fallen angels who married and commenced in unnatural union with human women, and who taught forbidden knowledge. Some are also listed in Book of Raziel (Sefer Raziel HaMalakh), the Zohar, and Jubilees.

Araqiel (also Arakiel, Araqael, Araciel, Arqael, Sarquael, Arkiel, Arkas) taught humans the signs of the earth. However, in the Sibylline Oracles, Araqiel is referred to not as a fallen angel, or Watcher, but as one of the five angels who lead the souls of men to judgement, the other four being Ramiel, Uriel, Samiel, and Azazel.
Armaros (also Amaros) in Enoch I taught men the resolving of enchantments.
Azazel taught men to make knives, swords, shields, and how to devise ornaments and cosmetics.
Gadreel (or Gader'el) taught the art of cosmetics, the use of weapons and killing blows.
Baraqel (Baraqiel) taught men astrology.
Bezaliel mentioned in Enoch I, left out of most translations because of damaged manuscripts and problematic transmission of the text.
Chazaqiel (sometimes Ezeqeel or Cambriel) taught men the signs of the clouds (meteorology).
Kokabiel (also Kakabel, Kochbiel, Kokbiel, Kabaiel, and Kochab), In the Book of Raziel he is a high-ranking, holy angel. In Enoch I, he is a fallen Watcher, resident of the nether realms, and commands 365,000 surrogate spirits to do his bidding. Among other duties, he instructs his fellows in astrology.
Penemue "taught mankind the art of writing with ink and paper," and taught "the children of men the bitter and the sweet and the secrets of wisdom." (I Enoch 69.8)
Sariel (also Suriel) taught mankind about the courses of the moon (at one time regarded as forbidden knowledge).
Samyaza (also Shemyazaz, Shamazya, Semiaza, Shemhazi, Semyaza and Amezyarak) is one of the leaders of the fall from heaven in Vocabulaire de l' Angelologie.
Shamsiel, once a guardian of Eden as stated in the Zohar, served as one of the two chief aides to the archangel Uriel (the other aide being Hasdiel) when Uriel bore his standard into battle, and is the head of 365 legions of angels and also crowns prayers, accompanying them to the 5th heaven. In Jubilees, he is referred to as one of the Watchers. He is a fallen angel who teaches the signs of the sun.
Yeqon (also Jeqon or Yaqum, יָקוּם, "he shall rise") was the ringleader who first tempted the other Watchers into having sexual relations with humans. His accomplices were Asbeel, Gadreel, Penemue, and Kasdaye (or Kasadya), who were all identified as individual "satans".
The account of the Book of Enoch has been associated with the passage in Genesis 6:1-4, which speaks of Sons of God instead of Watchers:
  • When men began to multiply on earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw how beautiful the daughters of man were, and so they took for their wives as many of them as they chose. Then the Lord said: "My spirit shall not remain in man forever, since he is but flesh. His days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years." At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth (as well as later), after the sons of God had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.
— Genesis 6:1-4

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Perrorist
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Perrorist » 13 Apr 2017, 06:58

What if...
extraterrestrials, intelligent but not divine, experimented here and we are the result? What if distorted stories have come down to us? What if the head of the project came to be seen as a god?
And what, given the overwhelmingly more likely prospect, if they weren't?

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by terra » 13 Apr 2017, 08:37

Me ?.... I'm just a non believer and I make no excuses for being one.
"Life's too short to drink cheap wine".

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Teddy » 14 Apr 2017, 16:45

Jewish & Roman Historians confirm Jesus of Nazareth was executed by Roman Governor Pontius Pilate :icon_biggrin:

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by mavisbramston » 14 Apr 2017, 21:14

Buck_naked wrote:
11 Apr 2017, 11:03
religion is about control.
Controlling gullible moronic fools who believe this rubbish.
Buck you are correct. Marxist at heart methinks. Lovely

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Teddy » 15 Apr 2017, 11:28

You rewriting History Tiv & promoted Buck to a PhD in the subject?! :lol:

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by grandduke » 15 Apr 2017, 13:54

Me to Terra i know a different story about the Christ before
it was corrupted by the early church fathers to suit themselves.

After Jesus said after receiving the vinegar----it is finished.
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Biggdad » 15 Apr 2017, 16:50

terra wrote:
13 Apr 2017, 08:37
Me ?.... I'm just a non believer and I make no excuses for being one.
Terra! Me too, was god an astronaut? Who knows? :thinking:
WHEN YOU TELL THE TRUTH, IT'S LESS YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER.Image

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