Atheist, or agnostic?

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Betty
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Betty » 15 Apr 2017, 17:01

terra wrote:
13 Apr 2017, 08:37
Me ?.... I'm just a non believer and I make no excuses for being one.
Me also Terra and I do not question other peoples beliefs................each to their own.
A rose by any other name...............

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godfather
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by godfather » 15 Apr 2017, 18:58

Yes Betty,and that's most likely where the truth lies.......each to their own!

Someone said "I need proof.......", so do I and I can't find it anywhere.

Teddy, with all due respect I think that the story of Jesus could well be correct but what happened during all the times before JC appeared?
There was 'Religion' for many years prior to the Bible but their gods were animals, dead people, statutes, stars etc etc.
That is a far cry from today's point of view regarding our Gods, which really has been an indoctrination of the unbelievers who by the power of the word become religious fanatics.

I'll stay agnostic for the time being!

:twocents-mytwocents: :twocents-mytwocents: :twocents-mytwocents:
The devil whispered, “You cannot withstand the storm“ and I replied: “I am the storm!”.....Unknown.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 15 Apr 2017, 19:36

The
common practices and assumptions expressed by educators about religion are widespread and often indicative of their fellow citizens. They are manifestations of the religious illiteracy that I define above and should not be interpreted as evidence of a lack of intellectual capability or awareness on the part of those who harbor these and similar assumptions. Given that the main sources of information about religion come from training in or about one's own religious tradition (or none) and the media, it should come as no surprise that these and other forms of religious illiteracy are widespread. Appropriately, individuals who are raised in or convert to a certain faith tradition will learn about that tradition within their faith communities or through sectarian forms of education in the schools aimed at promoting a particular religious worldview and values that are consonant with it.

Individuals who are not religious also learn particular worldviews and associated values from family and/or community members. In relationship to religion, these values are often a-religious or anti-religious.

The other main source of information about religion is the media whose coverage about religion is notoriously inconsistent at best and not a reliable source for representing the complexity of religious traditions and their diverse manifestations and influences.

None of these sources expose individuals to a comprehensive study of religion whereby
1) the diversity within a given tradition is knowledgeably and sympathetically represented and
2) religion as a social/cultural phenomenon is explored and analyzed.
Such an understanding requires an academic approach to the study of religion and although there are some schools that offer instruction representing this approach in primary and secondary education, relatively few citizens of the world have the opportunity to engage in this type of inquiry.
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Dreamweaver
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 15 Apr 2017, 19:40

I am certainly not suggesting that religious illiteracy is the sole or even primary cause of the heartbreaking violence that dominates local and global news stories. I do, however, believe that religious illiteracy is often a contributing factor in fostering a climate whereby certain forms of bigotry and misrepresentation can emerge unchallenged and thus serve as one form of justification for violence and marginalization.
A fourth and final example is when some dismiss religion altogether as obsolete, irrational and/or inherently oppressive thereby offending the dignity and sensibilities of people of faith everywhere.

Training in religious literacy provides citizens with the tools to better understand religion as a complex and sophisticated social/cultural phenomenon and individual religious traditions themselves as internally diverse and constantly evolving as opposed to uniform, absolute and ahistorical. Learning about religion as a social/cultural phenomenon also helps people recognize, understand and critically analyze how religion has been and will continue to be used to justify the full range of human agency from the heinous to the heroic. Finally, those trained in religious literacy learn to question the accuracy of universal claims such as "Islam is a religion of peace" or "Judaism and Islam are incompatible" thereby helping to deepen discourse about religion in the public sphere. Learning about religion is no guarantee that religious bigotry and chauvinism will cease, but it will make it more difficult for such bigotry and chauvinism to be unwittingly reproduced and promoted.
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Dreamweaver
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 15 Apr 2017, 19:57

godfather wrote:
15 Apr 2017, 18:58
but what happened during all the times before JC appeared?
I believe the standard explanation is that God has always found ways to express his divinity in this world. Our common form of expression being through words, it follows that the word or expression of God has always existed.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The Christian belief goes further. "The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."
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Perrorist
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Perrorist » 15 Apr 2017, 20:25

Being irreligious, I found all that to be irrelevant, DW.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 15 Apr 2017, 20:37

Fair enough. :icon_biggrin:
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Slapsy
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Slapsy » 16 Apr 2017, 11:15

During my life I have seen many people standing on street corners,or in shopping malls,claiming to be the second coming of Jesus. Absolute nut cases,the lot of them. Maybe these types of people were around,even 2000+ years ago.
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

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Slapsy
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Slapsy » 16 Apr 2017, 12:54

It appears that the mobile phone is to blame :

https://theaimn.com/mobile-phone-throttling-jesus/

:thinking: :thinking:
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

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grandduke
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by grandduke » 16 Apr 2017, 15:49

It's flourished for 2000 years and there is little proof it
was a myth so the balance of probabilities must point
to him actually existing, or there is an overring need for
humanity to lean on someone or something.? :thinking:
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Perrorist
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Perrorist » 16 Apr 2017, 18:21

The strongest evidence we have is that he existed as a middle-class revolutionary who was intent on freeing his people from the yoke of Rome. All the rest of it -- virgin birth, resurrection, etc -- was typical of the myths of the time.

I've no problem with people believing in the traditional Christian story. Down the ages we've needed stories to give us guidance, and the Gospels provide various interpretations on similar themes: sacrifice and good works, sin and redemption. Much more relevant today than consumerism and unfettered capitalism.

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terra
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by terra » 17 Apr 2017, 09:51

It's good to see that we all respect each others beliefs on this touchy topic.
:thinking: Lots of sensible comments here both for and against....... and not a shot fired !
Long live silverpeers !
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Dreamweaver
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 17 Apr 2017, 12:38

Perrorist wrote:
16 Apr 2017, 18:21
The strongest evidence we have is that he existed as a middle-class revolutionary who was intent on freeing his people from the yoke of Rome. All the rest of it -- virgin birth, resurrection, etc -- was typical of the myths of the time.
Yes. It appears he was part of the Essene mixed community at Mt Carmel in Galilee (not the austere male-only one at Qumran) who had been expecting a spiritual messiah, much like the Buddhic search for an expected lama. The Essenes were anti both Temple and Synagogue, which didn't want a spiritual messiah, but a political one to make Israel top dog.
I dream, therefore I am.

mavisbramston
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by mavisbramston » 17 Apr 2017, 14:13

The main thing is that as atheists we should not feel as though we have to pussy foot around and bend over back wards to appease the often super sensitive religious people.. In the last few years the insults dished out by religious people has been disgraceful and NO NO NO it does not go both ways.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Atheist, or agnostic?

Post by Dreamweaver » 19 Apr 2017, 14:01

The existence of some sort of creative force, in fields similar to magnetism, electricity, others recently discovered or not yet discovered, is far removed from a spirit world of angels or the gods of various religions.

So much depends on our individual interpretation of God. A personality or an abstract force? Is the creative force of Nature seen as God?

My comment earlier about the word or expression was a bit obtuse. You could take it as implying that Nature (inc you and me) is the expression of those forces known (or not yet known) to physics.
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