About God.

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Warrigal
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Re: About God.

Post by Warrigal » 02 Apr 2018, 23:56

Perrorist wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 12:26
You're a true believer, Teddy!
We are what we choose to be, Perry.

Humankind is gifted above all other animals with intellect and reason. We alone ask big questions and we alone have the capacity to understand the world around us and the universe beyond our reach.

When it comes to questions of spirituality and divinity we choose whether or not we will align ourselves with anything greater than ourselves. Some of us decide for ourselves and others are influenced by the writings of the ancients or modern philosophers.

None of us can be absolutely certain that we hold the truth in our minds but many are absolutely certain that others have been seduced by lies. We try to prove our own positions by belittling those we intuit are diametrically opposed to our own. A few of us actually take a 180 degree turn around at some point and reverse our thinking altogether. I did that at the age of 33 when I had an epiphany that shook me to the core. The god I did not believe in reached down, metaphorically speaking, and poked me with his finger, again speaking metaphorically.

Something greater than myself was calling to me personally and I had the freedom to respond positively or negatively. I chose the positive response and my life since that time has been lived in a whole new dimension and on a very different plane than before. Once again, it is impossible to describe these experiences without resorting to metaphor and analogy and even then it is impossible to convey to anyone else the exact nature of spiritual awakening. Those who read this will choose to accept or deny the reality of what I am talking about. A tiny minority will reflect on my words with an open mind. I would once had scoffed at such an account, that is until I was 33 years old.
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Perrorist
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Re: About God.

Post by Perrorist » 03 Apr 2018, 08:20

I don't dispute you had an epiphany, Warrigal, though I would question whether it was spiritual or emotional. The reason I say this is because when I was nineteen I was walking down a street when I had the most dreadful feeling, so intense I stopped walking to give myself time to recover. I felt as if I was about to enter an abyss of despair and loss, and yet I had no obvious reason for feeling that way. All these years later, I can vividly recollect the incident but not the feeling. Strange are our ways.

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grandduke
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Re: About God.

Post by grandduke » 03 Apr 2018, 15:53

Warrigal, the reason these experience cannot be explained to others
is because it is for those who receive them and allowed by Karmic law,
God has nothing to do with the human experience apart from providing
the life force that sustains us, when people understand we are spiritual
beings having a spell in physicality then perhaps we can do away with war.

That is my opinion. :happy-sunshine:
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Warrigal
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Re: About God.

Post by Warrigal » 03 Apr 2018, 18:19

Perrorist wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 08:20
I don't dispute you had an epiphany, Warrigal, though I would question whether it was spiritual or emotional. The reason I say this is because when I was nineteen I was walking down a street when I had the most dreadful feeling, so intense I stopped walking to give myself time to recover. I felt as if I was about to enter an abyss of despair and loss, and yet I had no obvious reason for feeling that way. All these years later, I can vividly recollect the incident but not the feeling. Strange are our ways.
Human beings are spiritual and emotional beings... and intellectual and sensual and social and individual. You cannot separate these attributes as if each is a separate unique and discrete characteristic.

The experience (that I did not describe in detail) certainly involved emotions because I am not a robot. The first of these was surprise bordering on astonishment.
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Perrorist
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Re: About God.

Post by Perrorist » 03 Apr 2018, 21:26

When someone says they feel the spirit moving them, how is that different in concept to feeling any other emotion?

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Warrigal
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Re: About God.

Post by Warrigal » 03 Apr 2018, 21:41

Perrorist wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 21:26
When someone says they feel the spirit moving them, how is that different in concept to feeling any other emotion?
I did not use that phrase because it would have been meaningless in my situation.
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Dreamweaver
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Re: About God.

Post by Dreamweaver » 03 Apr 2018, 22:19

I can identify exactly with all you're saying, Warrigal. Mine was at 39, and my emotion was being flabbergasted, dumbstruck, stunned - so probably more mental than emotional. "How can this be? I don't know what's going on here, but still such and such are the facts, and I have to respond to those."

Feeling the spirit moving in me? No.

I still don't know the cause, but it could only be one of two miraculous possibilities, and time passing seems to point to one. All I know is that if we think we know everything we are being ignorant. Still we have an assurance that, like children, we don't need to know all about our parents while still having faith in them.

I do remember as a teenager, asking for a sign that I could make a fresh start. I had struck a match to light the gas cooker, and accidentally dropped it. When I picked it up it was still burning. Although at the time I felt that was a reassuring sign, I can make allowance for coincidence and emotion. That is nothing like the incident above! :icon_biggrin:
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Perrorist
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Re: About God.

Post by Perrorist » 04 Apr 2018, 07:36

The spirit moving in someone is my interpretation of what spirituality is, in that it is separate from emotions in general. How do you define spirituality? And how is it not one of our many emotions? I ask in the spirit of inquiry (no pun intended).

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Warrigal
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Re: About God.

Post by Warrigal » 04 Apr 2018, 08:58

The definition of energy that I taught to my junior high school classes was "Energy is that which causes changes in matter" and then added "Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. It can be changed from one form to another". A simple working definition that in no way conveys the awesomeness of the sun's energy or the power of a cyclone.

If I were to attempt a simple definition of spirituality/spirit the same problem would arise. It would be inadequate to convey more than a small meaning of something much bigger.

Nevertheless I will have a go at it and mark that my definition is personal to me. Think about the parable of the blind men all washing an elephant and attempting to describe the animal from the different parts they could feel. Each has a completely different picture based solely on his own limited experience.

My working definition is that spirituality is what happens when the spirit within seeks and joins with the spirit without (and vice versa). Theologically speaking it is about the immanence and emmanence of God.
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Dreamweaver
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Re: About God.

Post by Dreamweaver » 04 Apr 2018, 11:27

I don't know if what I'm going to say is relevant, but might have a bearing. The early Quakers felt that each had their own connection to God, had no need of other teaching or clergy. That many people were too busy talking to God without listening. That God's voice could be discerned during meditative silence. It soon became apparent that what individuals were 'hearing' was often unlikely to be God speaking, such as 'God told me to walk down the street shooting people'!

Going on the supposed promise of Jesus that "When two or three are gathered together in my name, there will I be," any 'leading' had to be tested in the communal silence of the group. And it works! Enter the silence with a bitter or worrisome thought in mind, and within a half hour a calm and logical solution becomes apparent.

In that silence thoughts may often drift, but still seem to be guided. The first time I attended such a meeting, I was moved to speak during the silence, which is permissible and deemed to be relayed from God. I spoke the Serenity prayer used in AA meetings, not as a prayer but as an affirmation, that we CAN have this. I had no wish to say it, would have preferred to remain silent, but the urge was there.. After our silence had finished this unknown man came to me and said "How did you know about me?" On learning I knew nothing, he told me he had just come from an AA meeting, and was struggling with that prayer, deeming it admirable but impossible to happen. He was thinking these thoughts when he heard me say we CAN have it.

I could tell you many more. Could they all be coincidences? There may be emotion involved in them, there may be reason, but neither of these, nor a sense of the spirit moving, are necessarily a part. You can dismiss God entirely from the process if you take into consideration that telepathy might just be real. Yet did God invent telepathy?

The wonders of creation are too far beyond me. I know there is a personal Being who cares for me, may have used atoms to create the universe even, but the creator of atoms is too far for me to think! :icon_biggrin:
I dream, therefore I am.

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Perrorist
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Re: About God.

Post by Perrorist » 04 Apr 2018, 14:27

I can't say I'm any the wiser, but if it gives you something you didn't have before, then that's all to the good.

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grandduke
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Re: About God.

Post by grandduke » 04 Apr 2018, 14:45

Dreamweaver wrote
The wonders of creation are too far beyond me. I know there is a personal Being who cares for me, may have used atoms to create the universe even, but the creator of atoms is too far for me to think!
If we first accept that we are spiritual beings and therefore eternal and that our higher being never incarnates, and a still further point everything is governed by Karmic law and we write our own future then beware of your thoughts and deeds, it is our higher self that interacts with the physical when (Karma) allpws it. Hindu philosophy. \:D/ \:D/

Deep daddy deep. :icon-mrgreen: :icon-mrgreen:
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Warrigal
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Re: About God.

Post by Warrigal » 04 Apr 2018, 15:31

Dreamweaver, the night I was at a very low point I attempted to find an AA meeting in a suburb far from my home out of fear that someone might recognise me. I drove up and down the street where the address was and could not find the place anywhere. Then I headed for home, disappointed in myself. On a whim I turned down a lane beside some shops and found an open gate at the back of a church property, It led to a hall that was hidden fro view when in the correct street and the meeting was being held there. I stumbled in, attended my first AA meeting and have not touched a drop of alcohol since then and it is 20 years ago.

I learned later that the gate in the lane is usually locked.

Was it co-incidence, serendipity or dumb luck? Call it what you will but I call it providential and a lasting blessing.
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Dreamweaver
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Re: About God.

Post by Dreamweaver » 04 Apr 2018, 17:53

Well Warrigal, I know what I think, but of course may not be right! :lol:
:bear_hug
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Dreamweaver
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Re: About God.

Post by Dreamweaver » 04 Apr 2018, 18:37

Dukey, I have great respect for what I know of the Hindu teachings, but am aware that there are just as many sects and beliefs in it as in Christianity or any of the other major religions. All have fundamentalists, literalists, mystics, intellectuals, philosophers - you name it.

As far as karma is concerned, which obviously (to me) implies reincarnation, it is present in scripture but denied by most Christians, quoting Hebrews 9:27 which states, “Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment…” That says nothing about what follows judgement, whether it could involve a return to Earth to lead a hellish or a heavenly sort of life. The Bible talks a lot about reaping and sowing. Job 4:8 says, “As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.” Psalm 126:5 says, “Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.” Galatians 6:7-10 " Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;"

And did Jesus die to repay the karma of all believers?

Ah, but Christianity recognises Grace, which negates sin! Or does it negate guilt? Do we judge ourselves? Luke 6:37-38 says, “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you.” We are learning more and more that there are other causes of people being 'bad' than what we once supposed, be it epigenetics or whatever.

"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them who trespass against us."
I dream, therefore I am.

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