Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Major issues which will affect Australia and the World

Moderators: godfather, Dreamweaver

User avatar
Dreamweaver
Global Moderator
Posts: 8900
Joined: 16 Sep 2005, 15:46
Location: Victoria

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Dreamweaver » 05 Nov 2017, 16:55

But it didn't need to be this way.
Had history played out differently, the constitution would have looked very different and the current saga might not have happened.
An earlier wording of Section 44 probably would have left Joyce in the clear — and Waters, and Ludlam, and Roberts

The current wording of Section 44 disqualifies anyone who:
… is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power.
But this was the wording debated in 1897, a few years prior to federation:
… has done any act whereby he has become a subject or citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a Foreign Power.
In other words, it could have been argued that the alternative wording only seemed to disqualify people who had made a positive step to acquire the citizenship of another country.
But the wording we ended up with is much wider, and appears to only look at whether someone is technically a dual citizen, irrespective of their personal actions. The change probably came at a debate in Melbourne in 1898, but we don't know why it was made. The result, the expert paper notes, "seems to confirm that [the updated wording] is intended to disqualify persons with dual citizenship regardless of whether they acquire their other citizenship voluntarily or involuntarily".
One of the people who helped put the constitution together wanted to throw a bone to dual nationals, but was shouted down
Sir John Hannah Gordon was a South Australian delegate to the Australasian Federal Convention that drafted the constitution. He wanted to add the words "or who has not since been naturalised" to Section 44.That would have allowed people to be elected if they had become British subjects.

But he was shut down by others who were there:
Patrick McMahon Glynn: "You cannot have two allegiances."
Sir Edmund Barton: "No; a man might have to go out of our parliament to serve against us."
Sir George Turner: "He may be minister of defence."

It was also suggested that parliament be given the power to change the disqualification tests. If this had been successful, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull could have just changed the rules surrounding dual citizenship, so long as he could get the votes he needed in the Senate.
But instead, the proposal was defeated 26 votes to 8 and didn't make it into the constitution, meaning any changes to Section 44 can only be made after a referendum.
At the time the constitution was written, there were no Australian citizens. In fact, Australian citizenship wasn't created until 1949. Previously, Australians were "British subjects", as were Britons, Canadians and New Zealanders, so Mr Joyce (New Zealand), Mr Roberts (UK) and former Greens senators Scott Ludlam (New Zealand) and Larissa Waters (Canada) would have been unaffected by Section 44. (Though Mr Canavan's Italian citizenship would have still been a problem.)

It's unclear exactly when British subjects became subjects of a "foreign power" when it comes to Section 44. But the High Court has made clear that this is the case.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-17/d ... ss/8807534
I dream, therefore I am.

User avatar
Buck_naked
Emerald Member
Posts: 6155
Joined: 08 Jul 2013, 18:47
Location: potting shed

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Buck_naked » 06 Nov 2017, 10:23

Barry o'sullivan in deep do-doo as well.
his business has won government contracts.
illegal under the constitution. :character-oldtimer: :character-oldtimer:

User avatar
grandduke
Diamond Member
Posts: 11182
Joined: 01 Sep 2008, 20:13
Location: 1770 Agnes Water Central Queensland

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by grandduke » 06 Nov 2017, 11:37

The aim is self-interest a common human trait know as greed, in short
bugger you I'm alright Jack, lovely isn't it give one that nice warm feeling
our interests are secondary, so bring the bastards down. :character-oldtimer:
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

User avatar
lynny
Diamond Member
Posts: 63563
Joined: 30 Sep 2005, 17:15
Location: Hobart Tasmania

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by lynny » 06 Nov 2017, 15:27

Trumbulls at his press conference just said that there isn't enough transparency....?

Well I can see straight through him............

User avatar
kfchugo
Bronze Member
Posts: 1447
Joined: 11 May 2015, 19:03
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by kfchugo » 06 Nov 2017, 17:08

Trumbull must be praying for a miracle before he is stabbed in the back - his leadership is on the nose - even in his own party.

User avatar
Buck_naked
Emerald Member
Posts: 6155
Joined: 08 Jul 2013, 18:47
Location: potting shed

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Buck_naked » 06 Nov 2017, 17:30

The audit is now on..just don't call it an audit... :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Slapsy
Posts: 1035
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 08:39
Location: South Coast NSW

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Slapsy » 06 Nov 2017, 17:37

I wonder if he even read his own nomination for election form? The bloke is a dill.
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

User avatar
Perrorist
Administrator
Posts: 3988
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 12:36
Location: Tumbi Umbi, Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Perrorist » 06 Nov 2017, 20:45

lynny wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 15:27
Trumbulls at his press conference just said that there isn't enough transparency....?

Well I can see straight through him............
:lol:

User avatar
Buck_naked
Emerald Member
Posts: 6155
Joined: 08 Jul 2013, 18:47
Location: potting shed

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Buck_naked » 07 Nov 2017, 19:53

Penny wong explained why trumble chose 21 days, - to push the problem out to next year
Trumble must die. its the only way. a head on collision with Tony abbott and resulting fireball.
Kill 'em both. :character-oldtimer: :character-oldtimer:

User avatar
lynny
Diamond Member
Posts: 63563
Joined: 30 Sep 2005, 17:15
Location: Hobart Tasmania

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by lynny » 07 Nov 2017, 22:26

Time to start counting the postal votes but then Trumbs and the gang must be shutting up shop soon to go off on their jollidays so that'll be something else to put off till 2018. :hitting_wall

Did you see him bigging up himself and the man in the hat today? 300.000+ jobs Malc created in the last year.......and one of them was full time !!! =D=

User avatar
Slapsy
Posts: 1035
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 08:39
Location: South Coast NSW

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Slapsy » 07 Nov 2017, 22:40

All he is going to be known for is his selfies. :oops
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

User avatar
Perrorist
Administrator
Posts: 3988
Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 12:36
Location: Tumbi Umbi, Central Coast, NSW
Contact:

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Perrorist » 08 Nov 2017, 07:45

The Libs are now talking of an election in the first half of next year because the doubts over citizenship status could deprive the LNP of a majority.

User avatar
Slapsy
Posts: 1035
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 08:39
Location: South Coast NSW

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Slapsy » 08 Nov 2017, 13:50

With the senate they will inherit,would Labor even be hoping to form government? :eek :eek
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

User avatar
godfather
Diamond Member
Posts: 13606
Joined: 31 Aug 2005, 20:41
Location: Brisbane

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by godfather » 09 Nov 2017, 01:13

Good question slapsy, indeed I am somewhat concerned that no one has scrutinised the members of other parties.
ALP, One Nation, Rooter's Party (That should read Shooter's Party, of course!), even Family First etc.
After all we are a multi-national Nation with a large majority of us or our parents having been born overseas.
We have just seen the tip of the iceberg, I can see this quagmire become smellier and smellier by the days.
:gassy_today: :gassy_today: :gassy_today:


Lynny........ clever comment about Mal's interior! =D= =D= =D=

STOP PRESS: Lambie is the latest suspect!!!
The devil whispered, “You cannot withstand the storm“ and I replied: “I am the storm!”.....Unknown.

User avatar
Buck_naked
Emerald Member
Posts: 6155
Joined: 08 Jul 2013, 18:47
Location: potting shed

Re: Latest on our dual citizen polititions

Post by Buck_naked » 09 Nov 2017, 08:52

Gawd...now LAMBO???????????
I thought she claimed to be aborigine or sumpin???
Richard di natale interview with Andrew Bolt (yep it happened!) .
Says Trumble is doomed and there will be election.

Post Reply