A universal basic income

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grandduke
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A universal basic income

Post by grandduke » 26 May 2017, 17:42

UBI, some interesting reading here.
https://independentaustralia.net/politi ... come,10334
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
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Dreamweaver
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Dreamweaver » 26 May 2017, 19:27

It has to come, but there will be much angst along the way, I believe. That was true of the industrial revolution. No blood spilled doesn't mean no hurt.
So in the meantime there is room for the other ideal, MMT, probably good to have it, as service jobs, people oriented, will be needed for a long time yet. Theorists who have a better handle on things than I do, reckon that with freedom from enforced work more people will want to be involved in volunteering. Less people will feel the need for drugs, gambling, and crime. More people will want higher education and supply the brain power to improve the system, voluntarily. But that's too far down the track for me to hope to see! :icon_biggrin:
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Buck_naked
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Buck_naked » 26 May 2017, 21:44

sit down money. look what it has done to aborigines.
drugs, alcohol, domestic violence, suicides.
idle hands are the devils workshop..yada ..yada ...yada :lol: :lol:

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Dreamweaver
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Dreamweaver » 26 May 2017, 22:03

How much of that, Buck, existed before Europeans invaded Australia? And if you don't think they invaded, why don't you?
There was a race to see who could gain a base in this part of the world - Brits, Spaniards or Dutch. Planting by force some fit, rough, sometimes hot-headed citizens here was quite a stroke too. Citizens who didn't mind a bit of a stouch, alcohol, or domestic violence, though not much prone to suicide. Just never mind the locals. Those same citizens I do not denigrate, they were products of their society, and given a freer reign here many became what they were at heart - benefactors.

That is what could happen with our violent boozers and druggies in the future - given space to find the benefactors in themselves. Just won't happen overnight.
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Perrorist
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Perrorist » 27 May 2017, 05:42

Who introduced them to alcohol and drugs, Buck? Who killed them off, pushed them off their lands, treated them as sub-humans? At least they haven't turned to terrorism like some of those dispossessed of their lands in the Middle East since WW2.

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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Perrorist » 27 May 2017, 05:51

Di Natale spoke about a guaranteed basic income at the National Press Club a couple of months ago. Well worth reading: http://richard-di-natale.greensmps.org. ... press-club

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grandduke
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by grandduke » 27 May 2017, 09:00

Yes we have Richard DiNatali leader of the Greens, then
on the other, hand you have Buck the John the baptist a
voice crying in the wilderness. :heeheehee :heeheehee :heeheehee
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Buck_naked
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Buck_naked » 27 May 2017, 09:16

Where is the money going to come from to pay this 'dole for life' program.
half the population will be sitting on the verandah whittling wood producing nuffin,
no income tax for the gunnerment.
That means the GST would be have to 30-40% on everything including kale and smashed avocado.
call me Mulder....

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Dreamweaver
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Dreamweaver » 27 May 2017, 10:18

We won't have to get used to the idea of 'no money', but that's where it will go, down the track. In the meantime, money will come from the sale of goods and services created through technology - computers and robots. It's hard for any of us to imagine the future, but take a look at this - http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/ ... rolled-car
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Perrorist
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Perrorist » 27 May 2017, 11:19

The advantage, Buck, is that it replaces all welfare. So that's where some of the money comes from. If you're working, your income will be increased and you pay extra tax. Alternatively, the UBI is added to your tax. Some other income will come from levies on job replacement technologies. And if we get lucky, companies will pay their proper share of tax. :yeah_right

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grandduke
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by grandduke » 27 May 2017, 12:59

And never forget this one fact, the government can never
go broke because its the only authoritative body that can
print cash and bullion, and for Mulders info which he is determined
to ignore like a good little liberal----THIS IS ONE OF THE RICHEST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.
So Muld stop crying poor. :hitting_wall :hitting_wall :character-oldtimer: :icon-mrgreen: :icon-mrgreen:
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Dreamweaver
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Dreamweaver » 27 May 2017, 13:43

Right on, GD! What a country produces is its real economic wealth, not the money it prints.
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Buck_naked
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Buck_naked » 27 May 2017, 16:42

still sounds like a byron bay basket weavers smoke hazed dream to me. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Dreamweaver
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Dreamweaver » 27 May 2017, 18:00

To you, Buck, it would! :heeheehee
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to publish answers to any silent wonderings of 'not very well informed' guests who might visit here. :icon_biggrin:
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Re: A universal basic income

Post by Perrorist » 27 May 2017, 18:35

The key thing, Buck, is that we don't dismiss these ideas out of hand. There's not enough full-time work available right now, and that will get worse. Holding down two or three part-time jobs, as many Americans do, is fraught with uncertainty. Try getting a bank mortgage when your jobs have no permanency. Getting from one job to the next means factoring in travel times, and of course the times must also fit together, which eliminates the possibility of applying for some positions. Not surprisingly, most of the day becomes work-related. Making matters worse is your total income could still be below the poverty line.

At this moment in time, the future looks bleak for workers. Employers are intent on reducing wages because of an oversupply of labour and unions have little bargaining power in most industries. Meanwhile technological advances are automating the work of many specialists and skilled artisans.

We can't have an economy that continues like this. Some things have to change.

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