Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

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terra
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Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by terra » 18 Apr 2018, 09:06

"Life's too short to drink cheap wine".

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Dreamweaver » 18 Apr 2018, 17:40

'I'm not his property':
But that is exactly how women, and children too, were thought of in their culture, though their religion doesn't teach it. Think of our own customs, where a girl's father 'gives her away', where a ring is put on her finger so she can be tethered, where money changes hands as in bride price and dowry, where the bride is veiled and unseen by the man until the ceremony is safely over. Custom hangs on long after meaning has faded. Though some of us still think our children are our property!

It's to be hoped their transition to equality will speed up with exposure to the West. But then again they often see the immorality of the West as decadent. What's the answer?
I dream, therefore I am.

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Buck_naked
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Buck_naked » 18 Apr 2018, 17:54

WTF. We have two sets of laws in australia?
why wasn't i told?
I thought the only law that applied was australian law as passed by our parliaments.
stop the boats never let 'em in. :character-oldtimer:

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Dreamweaver » 18 Apr 2018, 18:09

Church law, canon law, still exists here, but is subject to our civil laws. It covers things like marriage of cousins, etc. Still some people are set on obeying the laws of their denomination - that is their choice.
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Perrorist
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Perrorist » 18 Apr 2018, 21:24

There's aboriginal law, too, but they're all subordinate to civil law.

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grandduke
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by grandduke » 19 Apr 2018, 12:42

Well about time this is a Christian nation and what applies in the middle east
does not apply here, or is it they came here believing they could change our
way of life to suit there.s, sorry folks if you wish to be governed by Sharia
law then exit the way you came in.
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by kfchugo » 19 Apr 2018, 12:54

Muslims really are a dour and intolerant lot. Many of them come here and immediately start carping for change - if their laws, customs and culture are so great.....why did they leave home in the first place? They DEMAND that we respect their religion, morals and culture yet they remain contemptuous of ours. They expect us to accept their women getting around with bags on their heads, but our girls wearing bikini's are supposedly inviting rape. ALL migrants (not just Muslims) need to understand and accept that if they want to live here, THEY need to change to accommodate Australia, its people, customs, culture and LAWS - we wont be changing to suit THEM. The message to ALL migrants is simple.....integrate or go back where you came from.

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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by grandduke » 19 Apr 2018, 14:45

My sentiments exactly Hugo, however, the culture will disappear the oldies die out
and the young are born to this way of life, this can be seen even in Iran where
young Woman are demanding clothing like their Sisters in the west.
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
George Bernard Shaw

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terra
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by terra » 19 Apr 2018, 15:06

Well said Hugo and grandduke ! =D= =D= =D= =D= =D= =D= =D= =D= =D=
"Life's too short to drink cheap wine".

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Dreamweaver » 19 Apr 2018, 15:58

grandduke wrote:
19 Apr 2018, 12:42
Well about time this is a Christian nation . . . .
Is it? I thought perhaps atheist, or at least agnostic, in the large part. As many immigrants also are.
Don't forget the minority is often vocal, the majority silent.

Me, I've discovered I'm a Possibilian. :icon_biggrin: Could be a lot of us around regardless of past culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possibilianism
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Teddy » 19 Apr 2018, 16:36

Grandduke is correct, Australia is a Christian nation! The opening sentence of the preamble to our nation's constitution states, "humbly relying on the blessings of Almighty God," These were the words adopted by our forefathers in the year 1901
Originally there was no mention of God in the first proposed constitution, but then people from this great nation began to write to their representatives demanding that the acknowledgement of the Lord be included. Many realised that the reason this nation is so blessed, is because it is a Christian nation.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Dreamweaver » 19 Apr 2018, 16:51

You are right of course Teddy in that, unlike France, Australia's Constitution specifically accepts the place of religion in the broader society, with its reference to Almighty God in its Preamble.

Almighty God is an accepted integral part of world wide religions. I know of no reference to Jesus Christ, or even Christianity. I could be mistaken.
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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Perrorist » 19 Apr 2018, 18:46

We're a secular nation, despite the churches exerting pressure politically.

Muslims are not asking Australia to adopt their laws. The women in the article are able to obtain civil divorces, and in some cases already have, but they seek a divorce that complies with their religion or at least the culture in which that religion exerts so much influence. This is a matter for Muslims to sort out. Nothing is being asked of Australians.

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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Warrigal » 19 Apr 2018, 19:07

Marriage and divorce in Australia are subject to federal law which states who can marry and grants divorces. However, certain religious traditions do not allow remarriage according to their rites unless the divorce is somehow squared with their particular tenets.

Catholic remarriage requires a process of annulment where a bishop decides whether the marriage was valid (or not) according to the Vatican teachings. Anglicans require something similar, no doubt involving the local bishop.

The Church of England has recently relaxed the rule that says you cannot be married in the Anglican Church if a former spouse is still alive. I have no idea whether this relaxation extends to Australian Anglicans.
Divorcees may remarry in church in "exceptional circumstances", the Church of England's governing body has decided, making ecclesiastical law conform to existing practice. The General Synod voted 308 to 110 in favour of rescinding acts that said the church should not provide a wedding to "anyone who has a former partner, still living".

But the synod added that it should not turn into a free-for-all for church weddings for divorcees.
"This does not automatically guarantee the right of divorced people to remarry in church," a church spokeswoman said. "They will still have to discuss it with the clergy and may in the end be refused."

https://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11 ... 13467.html
Remarriage for Jews has its rules too
Several points should be remembered for remarriage:
1.If the deceased husband was childless and he has a surviving brother, a chalitzah ceremony must take place. (Chalitzah - a ceremony whereby the widow of a childless husband is released by the brother of the deceased, thus permitting her to remarry somebody else).
2.A divorcee may remarry a number of times.
3.A divorcee may not marry a Kohen (descendent of Aaron, brother of Moses).
4.Jewish divorce must precede remarriage. This is an absolute requirement of Torah law. A civil divorce is not recognized by traditional Jewish courts. The child whose mother did not obtain a Jewish divorce from her former husband may very well be categorized as a mamzer (i.e. a bastard).

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_ ... rriage.htm
The problem with Jewish divorce is that it requires to consent of the husband. To remarry as a Jew the wife must be given a document from her husband releasing her from the marriage. If he refuses and she marries again she will be considered an adulteress and shunned by her community. Persuading vengeful husbands to release their wives is very difficult and they can hold their former wives hostage for years.
A get or gett (/ɡɛt/; Hebrew: גט‎, plural gittin גיטין) is a divorce document in Jewish religious law, which must be presented by a husband to his wife to effectuate their divorce. The essential part of the get is very short: the text states "You are hereby permitted to all men", which means that the woman is no longer married and that the laws of adultery no longer apply. The get also returns to the wife the legal rights that a husband holds in regard to her in a Jewish marriage.
Similar problems are experienced by Muslim women, made worse by the fact that a former husband is free to take a new wife at any time, as long as a legal divorce has been granted by the secular court.

In short, Australian law trumps all other laws but people who wish to comply with both secular and religious laws can have some painful personal conflicts.
If you don't have an ASIO file by now then you should be ashamed of yourself.

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Re: Muslim women tell their stories about divorce.

Post by Perrorist » 19 Apr 2018, 21:07

:good_one

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