The army is not a dumping ground

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Warrigal
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Warrigal » 29 Apr 2018, 18:50

Biggdad wrote:
29 Apr 2018, 14:54
I done my National service, & I think everyone should do it.
Six months & then two years part time..... Bring it back!! :character-oldtimer:
Everyone? What sort of war are they being prepared for?
Why should the military pay for delinquency or for vocational training that industry should be supporting ?
If you don't have an ASIO file by now then you should be ashamed of yourself.

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kfchugo
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by kfchugo » 29 Apr 2018, 19:48

Industry cant thump obedience and respect for authority into the types we are talking about. Although I agree that this responsibility should not fall to our military. We do (like most western countries) have a problem with juvenile delinquency.....underage drinking and drug use. Many of our youth have no respect for our laws, police or society and something needs to be done. Putting these kids in gaol will only expose them to hardened crims and exacerbate the problem. Shunting them into the military for a time might be a solution, but not necessarily THE solution.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Dreamweaver » 29 Apr 2018, 21:12

There used to be a police cadet program for the young ones - not a recruitment drive, but similar to army cadets. That has changed now, but take a look at India!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_P ... et_Project
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Leonie
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Leonie » 30 Apr 2018, 08:32

Betty wrote:
29 Apr 2018, 16:35
As I said previously many of the older generation has said the army has been the making of them and Dreamweaver has quite rightly said that many learn't a trade but I can also turn that on it's head and give the other side of the army..............in my town there was an army camp and every weekend without exception there was a fight between the army lads and the local lads, the fights mainly took place in two of the local pubs and anyone with any self respect would not use those two particular pubs.....one weekend a lad was murdered over the rivalry between the army lads and the local lads.
I grew up a stone's throw from a large army camp too. And yep, much the same scenario. I had a cousin who joined, pressured into it because of a troubled youth. I can assure you the army was most definitely not the making of him.

mavisbramston
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by mavisbramston » 30 Apr 2018, 22:12

I learn so much from you folk. Smart enlightening posts from everyone. =D=

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Biggdad
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Biggdad » 02 May 2018, 22:00

National service is vital for Australia safety. We need a competent backup if our regular armed forces are deployed.
It was a mistake to send our National service trainees to Vietnam, but we need a trained & readied force to take the
place of our regulars! 6 of my mates done their N/Service, one stayed in the Airforce & made his career. :character-oldtimer:

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grandduke
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by grandduke » 03 May 2018, 09:26

What was it the regimental sergeant major used to say to new recruits,
you may have broken your Mothers heart but you will not break mine. :heeheehee
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’”
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kfchugo
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by kfchugo » 03 May 2018, 10:59

Youth of today have little respect for anything (well, some of them - anyway) because their lack of respect has little or no consequences. A stint in the military or some quasi military establishment would soon instill a healthy respect for authority which is what they primarily lack. I dont know how we achieve this without reintroducing conscription (which is not a bad idea) or creating military style reform schools for young offenders. I see our government suddenly has the money to set up a space program, but probably nothing for a youth rehabilitation initiative.

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Warrigal
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Warrigal » 03 May 2018, 12:03

kfchugo wrote:
03 May 2018, 10:59
Youth of today have little respect for anything (well, some of them - anyway) because their lack of respect has little or no consequences. A stint in the military or some quasi military establishment would soon instill a healthy respect for authority which is what they primarily lack. I dont know how we achieve this without reintroducing conscription (which is not a bad idea) or creating military style reform schools for young offenders.
Some of them? I can assure you that children today are no different from the children of yesteryear. Every one of my six grandchildren has been taught respect from their parents and never did it require military style discipline. I see the mums at playgroup instilling manners and respect into their preschoolers all the time.

I see our government suddenly has the money to set up a space program, but probably nothing for a youth rehabilitation initiative.
Perhaps this is because one is something we don't have and the other is something we don't need, unless by rehabilitation you mean putting broken kids back together after abuse inflicted by families and/or juvenile detention.
If you don't have an ASIO file by now then you should be ashamed of yourself.

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Betty
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Betty » 03 May 2018, 15:42

Excellent comments Warrigal.

Going back to yesteryear.......when I was about 12 I can remember a chap at the bottom of our street being called up for National Service and he was always going AWOL, the military police were always at his parents house looking for him and us kids would stand at the entrance to their yard and wait for the military police to come out with him...one day they found him hiding halfway up the chimney.
A rose by any other name...............

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Perrorist
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Perrorist » 03 May 2018, 15:49

:lol:

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kfchugo
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by kfchugo » 03 May 2018, 16:55

Warrigal, there are a great many kids that have good parents and are certainly taught respect, responsibility and good behavior. Sure there are a statistically few parents who dont bring there kids up well, but right across the social spectrum there are kids from both good homes and bad that simply go "off the rails". Be it drugs, alcohol, peer pressure or numerous other issues, the fact remains that they become lawless trouble makers who get into vandalism, graffiti, petty crime etc. At present, if they come before the courts, they seem to either get a "slap on the wrist" and released back to their parents (who often have no control) or go to a juvenile detention centre where they rub shoulders with the dregs of our young society. A modern society like our could and should do better for them - you cant just blame poor parenting as many of these kids come from good homes with strict parents. They simply rebel against parental authority.

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Perrorist
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Perrorist » 03 May 2018, 17:58

The purpose of national service was never to make kids more respectful of authority (hardly an Australian characteristic, anyway). It was to train them in case of armed conflict. Is there still merit in this?

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Warrigal
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by Warrigal » 03 May 2018, 18:25

kfchugo wrote:
03 May 2018, 16:55
Warrigal, there are a great many kids that have good parents and are certainly taught respect, responsibility and good behavior. Sure there are a statistically few parents who dont bring there kids up well, but right across the social spectrum there are kids from both good homes and bad that simply go "off the rails". Be it drugs, alcohol, peer pressure or numerous other issues, the fact remains that they become lawless trouble makers who get into vandalism, graffiti, petty crime etc. At present, if they come before the courts, they seem to either get a "slap on the wrist" and released back to their parents (who often have no control) or go to a juvenile detention centre where they rub shoulders with the dregs of our young society. A modern society like our could and should do better for them - you cant just blame poor parenting as many of these kids come from good homes with strict parents. They simply rebel against parental authority.
And what makes you think that the military is the answer?

My cousin was married to a man who was conscripted for two years. He was a tradie before entering the army and a decent enough bloke. Afterwards he was pretty unemployable. He has spent his two years doing sod all in the army camp. His work ethic was gone.
If you don't have an ASIO file by now then you should be ashamed of yourself.

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kfchugo
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Re: The army is not a dumping ground

Post by kfchugo » 03 May 2018, 18:37

As I said earlier Warrigal......the military may be AN answer, not necessarily THE answer. The problem has been with us for years (or decades) now. We are discussing the problem and POSSIBLE solutions here..... have you something better to offer?

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