Religion. Beware!

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Dreamweaver
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Religion. Beware!

Post by Dreamweaver » 01 Nov 2018, 12:53

I was fortunate enough to frequently listen to a brilliant theologian. Initially it wasn't my choice, but I came to be very interested. Everything he taught had to have scriptural support, but where the New Testament contradicts itself, he asked us to consider it might be inspired by God but presented through faulty humans. He said that single statements, spot reading, was not advisable, the importance was in the overall message. He went on to point out what parts of accepted doctrine were not subject to this proviso.

So. Scripture gives the option of believing we are above the angels. or below them - The hosts of heaven are apparently quite a varied bunch, meant to obey God's will. (The Book of Enoch was in the Hebrew scriptures, and can still be read on line.) There is a creator God, who created this world, this solar system, perhaps more? Obviously He used forces, atoms, etc., but did He create them too? If God is a trinity, fair enough, but nowhere is there anything said that limits God to three persons, so God could be a whole assembly of persons, a committee, a heavenly government. Is there a creative force beyond God? Do we confuse these two concepts, and which one is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent?

My own conclusion is that we can't 'know' much about God, any more than a child can about a parent. The child still knows the parent intimately, without knowing details, whys and wherefores! Faith is not knowledge.
I dream, therefore I am.

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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by Trishia » 01 Nov 2018, 18:37

Dreamweaver, I agree entirely. I think much the same,
The other thing that annoys me, is when priests and preachers make rules, and then say "That is the word of GOD!"

:text-thankyou:

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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by Dreamweaver » 03 Nov 2018, 18:50

Second Law of Thermodynamics - In the Beginning...
The implications of the Second Law of Thermodynamics are considerable. The universe is constantly losing usable energy and never gaining. We logically conclude the universe is not eternal. The universe had a finite beginning -- the moment at which it was at "zero entropy" (its most ordered possible state). Like a wind-up clock, the universe is winding down, as if at one point it was fully wound up and has been winding down ever since. The question is who wound up the clock?

The theological implications are obvious. NASA Astronomer Robert Jastrow commented on these implications when he said, "Theologians generally are delighted with the proof that the universe had a beginning, but astronomers are curiously upset. It turns out that the scientist behaves the way the rest of us do when our beliefs are in conflict with the evidence." (Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers, 1978, p. 16.)

Jastrow went on to say, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." (God and the Astronomers, p. 116.) It seems the Cosmic Egg that was the birth of our universe logically requires a Cosmic Chicken...
https://www.allaboutscience.org/second- ... namics.htm


But now physicists say they’ve found a loophole in one of these laws, and it could create scenarios in which entropy - or disorder - actually decreases with time. Researchers at the US Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory say they might have discovered a loophole in the Second Law of Thermodynamics, where the march of entropy can go in the opposite direction - on a microscopic scale, at least, and only in the short term. https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists ... modynamics
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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by Perrorist » 04 Nov 2018, 06:41

Despite Jastrow being an astronomer, he had some distinctly non-scientific views, e.g. he didn't believe that the current episode of global warming is man-made. He also thought that the Big Bang Theory meant the universe was created from nothing, which is why he believed in divine creation, whereas modern astrophysicists don't necessarily see it as a beginning.

I think his slight on modern astronomers was completely unscientific. They don't defend the indefensible. That's not how scientists operate. They continuously question current knowledge and update it in line with new evidence.

We know very little about the universe, and what we do know is largely theoretical. It therefore makes sense to keep our minds open to all possibilities, provided they withstand penetrating scrutiny.

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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by Teddy » 04 Nov 2018, 09:30

Dreamweaver wrote:
01 Nov 2018, 12:53
I was fortunate enough to frequently listen to a brilliant theologian. Initially it wasn't my choice, but I came to be very interested. Everything he taught had to have scriptural support, but where the New Testament contradicts itself, he asked us to consider it might be inspired by God but presented through faulty humans. He said that single statements, spot reading, was not advisable, the importance was in the overall message. He went on to point out what parts of accepted doctrine were not subject to this proviso.

So. Scripture gives the option of believing we are above the angels. or below them - The hosts of heaven are apparently quite a varied bunch, meant to obey God's will. (The Book of Enoch was in the Hebrew scriptures, and can still be read on line.) There is a creator God, who created this world, this solar system, perhaps more? Obviously He used forces, atoms, etc., but did He create them too? If God is a trinity, fair enough, but nowhere is there anything said that limits God to three persons, so God could be a whole assembly of persons, a committee, a heavenly government. Is there a creative force beyond God? Do we confuse these two concepts, and which one is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent?

My own conclusion is that we can't 'know' much about God, any more than a child can about a parent. The child still knows the parent intimately, without knowing details, whys and wherefores! Faith is not knowledge.
DW. Angels always are God's servants often His messengers and are "spirits" Heb1:7
They also serve humans Heb1:14
Faith is based on recognising & accepting the qualities of God, knowing that God was able to do as He promised just as Abraham did as described by Paul in Romans 4:16-24
We learn to know God in our own experience when we are born again into God's family just as a child learns to know appreciate his or her parents & their qualities as he or she grows
The ministry of Jesus was set to reveal God to humanity John1:18
Again & again, He claimed that He was speaking the "words "of the Father ,doing the works of the One who had sent Him.

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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by Dreamweaver » 04 Nov 2018, 10:33

Teddy, I am not against established beliefs. I rather imagine life is like an educational institution where each of us is placed in the school, course, curriculum etc which best suits us. We are all individuals, and God knows our training needs. If I were in one of our colleges and being trained as a music teacher, for instance, there is no way I could tell someone being trained as a dentist that they are studying the wrong books!

I can of course be wrong. I did mention imagination! :lol:

You are truly blessed in your faith, Teddy, I believe.
I dream, therefore I am.

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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by kfchugo » 04 Nov 2018, 11:28

Again and again, we are given the "word of God" by MEN. God is supposedly all powerful and omnipresent...... why would he/she shroud his/her "word" in mystery and conjecture....only passed on by our fellow and imperfect humans? All supposed "knowledge" of Gods word is based on historical records thousands of years old and which have been passed down through the centuries translated, transcribed, interpreted and manipulated by man for their own ends. Religious wars have been waged down through the centuries and countless millions slaughtered because of conflicting belief in "Gods word".
NONE of us know the word of God, we have only been told about it by our flawed fellow man.
I have no wish to denigrate the faith or belief of others, but simply ask that they show the courtesy and respect they seem to demand to those with differing views.

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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by Dreamweaver » 04 Nov 2018, 12:17

Trouble is I think, Hugo, that various faiths used to get converts by feeding the concept that their way was the only divinely approved one. 'Believe this or go to hell.' So of course you wanted to save the souls of those you cared about. These best of intentions led to all that religious intolerance, no doubt manipulated, as you say!
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Re: Religion. Beware!

Post by kfchugo » 04 Nov 2018, 17:26

DW, I think those of us that are headed for Hell will at least have plenty of good company :lol:

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