That speech

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Perrorist
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Re: That speech

Post by Perrorist » 04 Sep 2018, 16:24

It takes time for migrants to assimilate, and often it's the following generation that fits in as a result of schooling (one reason I don't like faith-based schools). Unfortunately, people get scared that migrants' culture will, to quote Pauline Hanson, "swamp" the prevailing culture, even though it's numerically impossible for that to happen. Then there are those who profit from this fear, exaggerating the differences at the expense of the migrant culture. This is true mostly when that culture is predominantly a different religion or of a non-white skin colour.

The fact is that after a few years, no-one cares any longer. There was a lot of trouble years ago between Protestants and Catholics, now they just rub along together. Italians and Greeks who came in after the war were considered unAustralian and denigrated as wops and eyeties. South-east Asians in later years were considered aliens, and so on.

The benefit to Australia of different groups who see themselves first as Australians and second as members of a particular ethnic or national group is immense. Without them, Australia would have become a backwater.

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kfchugo
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Re: That speech

Post by kfchugo » 04 Sep 2018, 22:47

The difference is that the Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese and others all WANTED to integrate and become Australians.......and did so effectively.

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Re: That speech

Post by Perrorist » 05 Sep 2018, 09:01

As far as I know from my own experience, most recent migrants are happy to integrate.

mavisbramston
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Re: That speech

Post by mavisbramston » 05 Sep 2018, 09:03

I have never understood what was wrong with the term new Australian. I have decided I am going to start using it.
The race card is being played too often.
I consider myself to be strongly to the left so I question some of my fellow lefties supporting an opressive religion like Islam which considers gays are dogs, women slaves to men , non believevers scum.
Now if that is wong feel free to correct me.
Trouble is I have no desire to align myself with the nasty right. Thats the trouble with this issue.
I argue this is not about race.
Islam is not a race.
It is a belief system.

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Dreamweaver
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Re: That speech

Post by Dreamweaver » 05 Sep 2018, 09:58

Islam is very broad. Although many Muslims look at the intellectual aspect of it, and come up with varying views, there is a great lot who experience it without much thought. It is part of the emotional aspect of life, the music, the beauty of religious language, familiar since childhood, they hold very dear, without analysis. You could think they are brain washed, but even if they could look at it all critically there is much debate on how to interpret the Koran, so still opinion differs. Not a good idea to paint them all with one brush, especially as there are so many.
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Re: That speech

Post by Dreamweaver » 05 Sep 2018, 10:08

Up to date immigration has been a blessing to Australia, bringing cultural diversity and skills. Perhaps the time has come to take a different path, and train more of our own professionals. By lowering our intake of skilled people we would have no excuse to deny entry to those fleeing horrific circumstances. Doesn't our compassion, indeed our moral duty, count for more than keeping up with the Joneses?
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kfchugo
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Re: That speech

Post by kfchugo » 05 Sep 2018, 11:11

An excellent sentiment , DW but dont we also have a responsibility to ourselves, our country and our culture? There are a great many Muslims who have settled in Australia and have integrated well. Unlike our migrants of yesteryear however, experience around the world has shown (and continues to show) that Muslim migration is different and potentially a threat to modern values and culture. I dont profess to know the solution but I certainly recognise the problem, unlike many others. The difficulty is that while we want to help those fleeing persecution or totalitarian regimes, we have no way to identify those migrants who will become a threat in the future. Then there is the issue of "home grown" terrorists.....those born here who become radicalised later in life. There is a popular saying....."not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims"...... while that might not be technically accurate, there is a grain of truth to it. It is not a racial issue, it is one of religion.

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Re: That speech

Post by Perrorist » 05 Sep 2018, 14:02

All terrorists are not Muslims. The tabloid press play this up, but it's not borne out by the evidence. Also, that someone terrorises for non-religious beliefs while being a Muslim, doesn't make them a Muslim terrorist. Correlation isn't causation.

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Re: That speech

Post by Dreamweaver » 05 Sep 2018, 20:43

Hugo, I agree that not all is sunshine and roses. Children who have grown up amidst horror will have different brain development than what we term normal, and it is amazing that so many do become 'normal'. The following generation comes back on track, as we have seen before.. But why should we put up with even a small percentage of this troublesome behaviour?

If we don't, we deny those kids the normalising influence that Australians can provide, and invite more worldwide terrorism. Which will affect us. We can't avoid it, we are not isolated as in the past, the world is more and more a global village. The best we can do is to accept our responsibility as part of the larger community, and help these people to normalise. If not, it could flow on for more than that one generation, which is not what we want our grandkids to have to cope with.

Them's my thoughts, anyway. :twocents-mytwocents:
No doubt many will not agree.
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Re: That speech

Post by mavisbramston » 06 Sep 2018, 11:35

I still cannot see how saying a different religion is the same asa different skin colour.
Opposing someone based on skin colour is racial predjudice.
Religion is a way of thinking.
I still do not understand why the left or some on the left are taking up the Islam cause.
I agree with Bill.



https://youtu.be/FXIM3nkn0Kk

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Dreamweaver
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Re: That speech

Post by Dreamweaver » 06 Sep 2018, 16:09

Bill Maher makes a statement that the prof disagrees with. Without letting him explain why, Bill cuts him off with "You're wrong"!
Not very convincing to me. I think the prof had reason on his side.
Some statistical facts here,
http://columbanird.org/muslims-are-not- ... s-muslims/

And what the Bhuddists have been doing in Myanmar, and the Zionists in Palestine!
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Re: That speech

Post by Dreamweaver » 06 Sep 2018, 16:26

Though I don't concede to many isms, like racism, sexism, etc., I guess I have to admit to culturism. Some cultures are better than others imho, , and Australia has one of the best cultures in the world, again imho. Yes, religion can shape culture, but that can be for better or for worse. The religious adherent will choose which sect to join. His culture has shaped his religion, rather than religion shaping his culture. The majority of Islamic thought is actually part of the solution to terrorism.
My opinion! :character-oldtimer: :character-oldtimer:
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Re: That speech

Post by Perrorist » 06 Sep 2018, 21:13

Bill Maher has some strange ideas.

The left, as far I've observed, hasn't taken up an Islam cause. Unfortunately, the left is really an amalgam of various groups with different principles, whereas the right is easier to define as a single philosophy. So you can always find some leftist group pushing an unusual cause.

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Re: That speech

Post by Warrigal » 10 Sep 2018, 08:27

I agree with Dreamweaver. I don't support Islam as a philosophy or a religion that I would want to follow.
However, history demonstrates the folly of trying to suppress big ideas or to choose one from the many as the 'true" one.

I choose to speak against islamophobia for several reasons. One is that Islam and terrorism are not synonymous. The other is that if I wish to be able to openly practise my faith then I have to support the right of others to do the same. Do any of us want to live in a society where religion disappears underground? Check your history books to see what that society looks like.
If you don't have an ASIO file by now then you should be ashamed of yourself.

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Re: That speech

Post by kfchugo » 10 Sep 2018, 14:55

In general, Warrigal, I agree with you 100%. However, as the old saying goes - "there is an exception to every rule". In the case of Islam, while it is generally a fairly gentle religion, its adherents believe it is (a) okay to kill non believers, (b) the whole world should be brought into the faith and (c) a Muslim that converts to another religion should be killed. While the Koran teaches tolerance of other religions, its adherents are generally intolerant and disrespectful of other faiths. There are no doubt numerous other negative aspects to the Islamic faith and while I firmly believe in freedom of religion, I think that in some respects, Islam can be considered more of a cult.
Mind you, most other religions also have negative aspects to their doctrines and seek to control the lifestyle and/or behavior of its believers, so I suppose it comes down to a matter of personal opinion.

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