Shalom

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mavisbramston
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Shalom

Post by mavisbramston » 16 May 2018, 08:42

Sometimes I have very strong opinions on certain issues...climate change, pro vaccination etc.
But the Israel Palestinian conflict I am totally confused.
The Palestinians blowing up buses with children.
But Israel is hardly squeaky clean. Shooting protrsters in the back or in wheel chairs .
I guess I am a little more to the side of Israel mainly becaiuse the Exodus story is so uplifting. From holocaust to the land of milk and honey.
However I am TOTALLY up for enlightenment. Love to know your views.
Who is the bad guy here?
I may have this ALL wrong.

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kfchugo
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Re: Shalom

Post by kfchugo » 16 May 2018, 11:06

With the Palestinian situation, there is TONS of blame on both sides but when I look at the current border clashes, I see Palestinians trying to get back to their HOMES that have been annexed by Israel and I have sympathy for them. Lots of people say that Hamas is to blame and they are fostering discontent and protests, but for me, I only have to look at the casualty figures.....dozens of Palestinians killed and hundreds injured, but nothing much in the way of Israeli casualties and it always seems to be this way. Israel claims that all they do is in "self defence", but you never see much damage done to them, while heaps of Palestinians are murdered in so called "retaliation".......for my money, while both sides have blood on their hands, Israel is also a terrorist state.

mavisbramston
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Re: Shalom

Post by mavisbramston » 16 May 2018, 13:24

Thank you for a really informative post kfhugo

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Slapsy
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Re: Shalom

Post by Slapsy » 16 May 2018, 14:36

kfchugo wrote:
16 May 2018, 11:06
With the Palestinian situation, there is TONS of blame on both sides but when I look at the current border clashes, I see Palestinians trying to get back to their HOMES that have been annexed by Israel and I have sympathy for them. Lots of people say that Hamas is to blame and they are fostering discontent and protests, but for me, I only have to look at the casualty figures.....dozens of Palestinians killed and hundreds injured, but nothing much in the way of Israeli casualties and it always seems to be this way. Israel claims that all they do is in "self defence", but you never see much damage done to them, while heaps of Palestinians are murdered in so called "retaliation".......for my money, while both sides have blood on their hands, Israel is also a terrorist state.

Well said,a lump of hot lead to the heart,for a legless man in a wheelchair,throwing stones. Overkill in my opinion.
The world came to the aid of the Jews in Europe. Maybe,it is time for the world to come to the aid of the Palestinians.
I could not believe the joy expressed by the Israeli prime minister.
The punters know that the horse called Morality rarely gets past the post,whereas the nag called Self-interest always runs a good race. ..... Gough Whitlam 19/10/89

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kfchugo
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Re: Shalom

Post by kfchugo » 16 May 2018, 15:25

It really sickens me to watch Netenyahu and the U.S. fawning over Israel. Considering the Holocaust and repression suffered by the Jews before they were handed Israel, one would think that as a people, the Jews would be sympathetic toward the Palestinians. Such is not the case however, the Palestinian territories are occupied by Israel who subjugate the people and allow only VERY limited supplies to be imported. At the slightest provocation, Israel bombs the hell out of them and THEN restricts their ability to rebuild. Israel covets the Palestinian lands and has absolutely NO INTEREST in a "two state" solution, despite their protestations to the contrary. Just to be totally clear, I have no issue with the Jewish people or their religion - only their government.
I would NEVER condone terrorism, but I can understand that it is often the last resort of people who are otherwise powerless. In my opinion, Netenyahu is every bit as bad as Yasser Arafat ever was, but he enjoys international goodwill through the support of the U.S. Many Jewish people are outraged and appalled at their governments treatment of the Palestinians, but obviously not a majority or the government would change. :character-oldtimer:

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Shalom

Post by Dreamweaver » 16 May 2018, 17:54

Palestinians and Israelis both use the past to justify their claims to land. Because the past had so many different phases there, I don't think any solution comes that way. They have to start from how things stand at this present moment, and work from this point. There are plenty willing to do this, on both sides, the majority I think, but they are not in power. I would place blame on where the power lies, and that is the Israeli government, unpopular with many Jews. :flaming_mad
I dream, therefore I am.

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kfchugo
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Re: Shalom

Post by kfchugo » 16 May 2018, 18:45

I agree Dreamweaver and I dont see any kind of solution presenting itself in the foreseeable future. I am pleased to see an ever increasing number of countries recognising Palestine as a sovereign country and they have gained "observer" status at the United Nations. Good steps toward establishing a homeland for themselves. A solution will never be achieved by dialogue between the two parties and the U.S. has destroyed any claim to impartiality as an intermediary by moving their Embassy to Jerusalem. I would hope that the U.N. might take a more active role, perhaps even drawing the borders of a Palestinian state and enforcing the decision on Israel. I repeat however that Israel WANTS Palestinian land and is unlikely to accept any decision that denies that ambition.

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Betty
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Re: Shalom

Post by Betty » 17 May 2018, 00:19

kfchugo wrote:
16 May 2018, 15:25
It really sickens me to watch Netenyahu and the U.S. fawning over Israel. Considering the Holocaust and repression suffered by the Jews before they were handed Israel, one would think that as a people, the Jews would be sympathetic toward the Palestinians. Such is not the case however, the Palestinian territories are occupied by Israel who subjugate the people and allow only VERY limited supplies to be imported. At the slightest provocation, Israel bombs the hell out of them and THEN restricts their ability to rebuild. Israel covets the Palestinian lands and has absolutely NO INTEREST in a "two state" solution, despite their protestations to the contrary. Just to be totally clear, I have no issue with the Jewish people or their religion - only their government.
I would NEVER condone terrorism, but I can understand that it is often the last resort of people who are otherwise powerless. In my opinion, Netenyahu is every bit as bad as Yasser Arafat ever was, but he enjoys international goodwill through the support of the U.S. Many Jewish people are outraged and appalled at their governments treatment of the Palestinians, but obviously not a majority or the government would change. :character-oldtimer:
Completely agree with everything you say kfhugo.

Over the years I have known a few Jewish people that have left living in Israel and come to Europe to live because of the way the Palestinians are treated and they don't agree with the government in Israel........when people talk about HAMAS and terroists they forget about the Zionists in Israel.
A rose by any other name...............

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Betty
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Re: Shalom

Post by Betty » 17 May 2018, 00:21

Dreamweaver wrote:
16 May 2018, 17:54
Palestinians and Israelis both use the past to justify their claims to land. Because the past had so many different phases there, I don't think any solution comes that way. They have to start from how things stand at this present moment, and work from this point. There are plenty willing to do this, on both sides, the majority I think, but they are not in power. I would place blame on where the power lies, and that is the Israeli government, unpopular with many Jews. :flaming_mad
Definitely Dreamweaver.
A rose by any other name...............

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Perrorist
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Re: Shalom

Post by Perrorist » 17 May 2018, 04:35

The most incriminating factor is Israeli expansion into Palestinian land for settlement, bulldozing homes and olive groves for new houses. Netanyahu is a monster. Israel is a US proxy state supported militarily to further US interests in the oil-rich region.

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Betty
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Re: Shalom

Post by Betty » 17 May 2018, 07:22

You are so right Perry.
A rose by any other name...............

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kfchugo
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Re: Shalom

Post by kfchugo » 17 May 2018, 11:44

I think everyone knows that Jewish interests virtually control Hollywood.....and I was reading a few years ago that a good many U.S. politicians can thank Jewish donations for their successful election. The Jewish lobby in U.S. politics wields enormous power. It would appear that whatever Israel does...... it can always count on U.S. support. Another point of blatant hypocracy is the widely accepted fact that the U.S. has supplied Israel with nuclear weapons yet the same U.S. fights tooth and nail to ensure that no other nation in the region has them.
Life was much simpler when we only had to worry about the USSR and its KGB as the worlds "bad guys".

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Dreamweaver
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Re: Shalom

Post by Dreamweaver » 17 May 2018, 12:37

ARGENTINA: DON'T TEAM UP WITH ISRAELI APARTHEID
ADD YOUR NAME TO OUR LETTER NOW
Dear Lionel Messi and Argentina National Football Team,

We urge you to cancel your friendly match with Israel, scheduled for June 9, 2018, due to Israel’s long record of human rights abuses, on and off the field.

Israel arrests, harasses and kills Palestinian players. It destroys Palestinian stadiums and denies Palestinian footballers the right to travel to play. And, Israeli football leagues include clubs based in illegal Israeli settlements built on stolen Palestinian land .

Israeli snipers killed more than 40 unarmed Palestinians in Gaza and injured thousands. Mohammed Khalil, a Palestinian footballer who was demonstrating with thousands for their basic human rights, was shot by a sniper in both legs, ending his football career.

This is not the first time Israeli bullets have ended Palestinians’ football careers. And, it won't be the last under Israel’s violent regime of occupation and apartheid.

Messi, your game with Israel is political. The Israeli government will use it to cover-up its brutal attacks on Palestinians, on and off the field.

There is nothing “friendly” about military occupation and apartheid. Don’t play Israel until Palestinians’ human rights are respected.

Don’t team up with Israeli apartheid!
https://bdsmovement.net/nothingfriendly
I dream, therefore I am.

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kfchugo
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Re: Shalom

Post by kfchugo » 17 May 2018, 15:36

:good_one

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Teddy
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Re: Shalom

Post by Teddy » 18 May 2018, 11:09

An Israeli with a sense of humor at the UN has set the record straight.































An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly and made the world community smile.

A representative from Israel began:

"Before beginning my talk, I want to tell you something about Moses. When he struck the rock and it brought forth water,

he thought, 'What a good opportunity to have a bath!' Moses removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock, and entered the water.

When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished.

A Palestinian had stolen them!"

The Palestinian UN representative jumped up furiously and shouted, "What are you talking about? The Palestinians weren't even there then!"

The Israeli representative smiled and said, "And now that we have made that perfectly clear, I will begin my speech..."

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